Vitale Hardin on Overcoming Perfectionism

Vitale · 0:00

I'm Vitale Buford Hardin, and one of my favorite quotes is, Your ability to lead others is a reflection of your ability to lead yourself..

Speaker 3 · 0:13

The Leader Assistant Podcast exists to encourage and challenge assistants to become confident, game-changing leader assistants.

Jeremy · 0:29

Calling all Executive Assistants, are you looking for a way to elevate your skills or earn that promotion you've been eyeing? Nova Chief of Staff's Online Certification Course provides you with the knowledge and confidence you need to stand out on the job. Whether you want to land your dream position or level up in your current role, Nova's Self-Paced Course gives you hands-on practice doing what Chiefs of Staff do every day. Visit leaderassistant.com/nova to learn more and secure your spot. That's leaderassistant.com/nova. Hey friends, welcome to The Leader Assistant Podcast. It's episode 258 and I'm your host Jeremy Burrows. And if you want to check out the show notes for today's episode and today's conversation, you can go to leaderassistant.com/258, leaderassistant.com/258. So today we are going to be talking about perfectionism. And with me today to chat about this interesting topic that I've talked with assistants about plenty of times is Vitale Hardin. Vitale, welcome to the show.

Vitale · 1:49

Thank you for having me, Jeremy.

Jeremy · 1:51

And what part of the world are you in?

Vitale · 1:53

I am in Kentucky. So mid-America.

Jeremy · 1:57

Love it. Love it. I'm in Kansas City, Missouri. So mid-America as well. So super glad to have you today. Tell us a little bit about you personally. Do you have a favorite hobby? Do you have a favorite Netflix show? Do you have a favorite, you know, meal, perfect meal?

Vitale · 2:16

Yeah, sure. Well, I would say my hobby is parenting right now, not hobby, but my full-time job. I have a six-month-old at home and a 12-year-old. And so that consumes my time outside of running a business. And my favorite show, Tried and True, is Law and Order SVU. And no judgment. I've been watching it for probably 15 years now. And that's what I like to watch when I'm trying to turn my brain off.

Jeremy · 2:48

Nice. And six, you said six months and 12 years, is that right?

Vitale · 2:53

Yep.

Jeremy · 2:54

Quite the spread. Quite the spread.

Vitale · 2:55

Yes. The 12-year-old is adopted and the six-month-old is our first biologic baby.

Jeremy · 3:02

Awesome. Well, we're super excited to jump in today, but why don't you tell us a little bit about your career and, you know, how you ended up working with people and working with teams and companies to help them, yeah, with perfectionism and turning perfectionism into a positive and all the things. So, give us a little bit of a summary of your career and how it led you to where you're at now.

Vitale · 3:29

So, you know, what I really work on is helping people let go of their perfectionism and instead of being a leader of perfectionism, be a leader of excellence. But it was actually a pain point for me, Jeremy. So, I feel like I turned my pain into my purpose and that's kind of a corny quote. But perfectionism really held me back for, I would say, 35 years of my life. And I'm 41 now, but it showed up in so many different ways. You know, I used to work at large law firms and I led their marketing, business development and client development teams. And law firms can be highly perfectionist environments. And there were also things going on with me in the background. So from age 21 to 31, I was addicted to Adderall. And so I was addicted to Adderall because it allowed me to be what I thought was perfect, right? Really thin without trying. I could work these like 28-hour days and, you know, have this perfect career, make sure I make everyone happy and get all of my worth from my career and making those professionally around me just happy. And so when I was 31, I decided, you know, I can't live this way anymore. And so I got sober. And as most of us do, we have a major life and a life event, maybe a health scare, death, divorce, relationship change, getting sober. We have this opportunity to be introspective. And so I looked inward and I was like, you know what? This has nothing to do with my addiction to Adderall and everything to do with my addiction to perfection. And so I started really looking into perfectionism, right? Researching it, creating content around it, interviewing people about it. And I realized it was a really big issue that no one was talking about because society has actually been telling us to be perfect for so long. And it's killing us. And so I did two national research studies on the impact of perfectionism in the workplace. I wrote my memoir. I'm currently writing my first kind of how to fix perfectionism in the workplace book right now. And that's why I do what I do, because I believe that when you can really fix the perfectionism problem within ourselves as leaders, but also culturally, it really changes the game.

Jeremy · 5:35

So, yeah, thank you for sharing your story. So, you know, I work with executive assistants. I am an executive assistant. Do you have, you know, before we dive into some of the practical tips and wisdom on what you've learned as far as perfectionism and overcoming it? Do you have any experience working with assistants? Did you interact with assistants? You know, any stories, anything in the assistant world throughout your career?

Vitale · 6:07

Yeah, well, most definitely. And I've done presentations and trainings for assistants, too. Right. So I would say that in my experience, the perfectionism symptoms I think resonate the most with assistants would be people-pleasing. Right. Constantly seeking approval. Maybe that fear of lack of delegation. Right. Because we're supposed to get it all done. Procrastination at times. We procrastinate because we're so afraid it's not going to be perfect enough. Right. Starting that project, drafting that email, whatever it is. And so we actually put things off and carry around anxiety because of perfectionism. But I would say that people-pleasing peace probably really falls in there a lot. And then also, you know, conflict avoidance. Assistance avoid having that difficult conversation with colleagues or the person that they report to just for fear of rejection, upsetting someone. We can't control other people. And so there's so many symptoms of perfectionism, but I completely see and as I've talked to them and also trained them of how it really can hold them back. And so when they can let that go, it can be really powerful.

Jeremy · 7:13

Yeah, it's very on par and in alignment with, you know, the when I talk about detaching our worth from our work. And, you know, it's unfortunately, there's this dynamic, exciting relationship, but also unfortunately, a toxic relationship when it comes to executives that are power driven and then assistants who are approval driven. And so it just feeds like feeds our idols both sides. And it's like the executives are like, oh, I see that they want my approval so I can get more power over them and manipulate them to get what I want. And then the assistants are like, oh, you know, I really want their approval. And so I'm going to do whatever it takes. You know, I sacrifice my energy and my health and my sanity. So what what would you say is maybe one or two tips for those who are listening? They're like, oh, my gosh, this is this is definitely me. Like, I am a perfectionist and I don't know how to stop.

Vitale · 8:19

So I'll give some tips. But first, it's really about really self-identifying and understanding like what the cost of their perfectionism is to them. Like, what does that cost? How is it holding them back from really stepping into what they're fully capable of? And so it's really so what I've done, Jeremy, is I created two types of perfectionism. So they're slow and they're as fast. So slow perfectionism is the kind of perfectionism that keeps you stuck. So I want you to think about procrastination, imposter syndrome, right? Not feeling good enough, maybe not sharing brilliant ideas that would help something be an idea be even better, right? Or help their leader be even better. Conflict avoidance, not delegating, fear of failure, fear of making a mistake. So slow perfectionism keeps you stuck. Then on the other end of the spectrum is fast perfectionism, right? Fast perfectionism is that workaholism, unrealistic expectations, chronic multitasking, the go-go-go, always saying yes. So we can see how this is showing up for assistance, right? They're probably a hybrid of both slow and fast in different ways. And so first it's listening to those two types and saying like, wow, and then really emotionally connecting to what it's costing you, right? Is it costing you your emotional health, your physical health, joy, being present, sleep? So first it's that connecting. Then there are some tools in terms of just really starting to switch your mindset from one of perfection to excellence. So one of my favorite tools is going from what if thinking to even if thinking. So what I mean by that is, you know, as perfectionists, control freaks, we can really get into that what if mindset, right? If something goes wrong, we're like, oh my gosh, what if that person quits and what if I don't meet that deadline? And what if my son doesn't make the soccer team? And what if, what if, what if? And we just kind of stay stuck in this kind of anxious ball, this ball of anxiety where we're kind of stuck in the problem. And so instead, we need to move to even if, right? Even if I don't meet that deadline, it gives me an opportunity to kind of revisit my approach and come up with a new creative strategy moving forward. Even if that other colleague quits, it gives us an opportunity to kind of maybe reassign roles and responsibilities. Even if my son doesn't make the soccer team, it's going to be okay. So it's really just to help your mind move from being stuck in the problem to moving to the solution. And so it's just an easy way of going from what if to even if. So that's one of the simple mindset tools. Another one is going from this idea of work-life balance to priorities. So work-life balance is a bunch of nonsense. And I don't believe in it, so let's just throw that term out. If you need another term, feel free to go with work-life boundaries. But work-life balance says we have to be everything to everyone. And so especially for our approval seekers in the house, we're going to be on this hamster wheel trying to achieve work-life balance, which is unachievable. The reason that there are 14,000 podcasts and webinars and conferences on how to achieve work-life balance is because it's unachievable. If it was achievable, you'd have one conference, you'd learn the tools and you'd move on. So it would be really simple. So instead, it's like looking at their life and priorities because work-life balance takes you out of the present moment. You're with your family and you feel guilty that you're not working. You're at work and you feel guilty that you're not with your family. So you're never where your feet are. Perfectionism steals that from you. It steals the present moment because you're always on to the next and this kind of domino effect that it creates. So instead, it's looking at your life in terms of priorities, allowing your life to shift, not trying to be number one parent every single day of the week or number one assistant every single day of the week, but really prioritizing. You need to work late on Tuesday night to get a bunch of projects done, but on the weekend, you're not even going to think about work because your priority is a soccer tournament and date night, for example. So just allowing yourself to shift. So instead of trying to be everything to everyone all the time, under this false guise of work-life balance, really looking at your life in priorities.

Jeremy · 12:35

So then, what about, like, trying to think of how to frame this. So being vulnerable as an assistant, and it's very intimidating to do so because it's like, well, our job is to hold everything together and not lose our cool, and our job is to keep our executives who are, you know, the ones that are running around like chickens with their heads cut off sometimes, and we're trying to keep them level headed. But how can we express that we are, you know, wrestling with perfectionism or how can we be vulnerable with our executives and our colleagues and trying to at least, you know, identify it and move on without feeling that sense of, oh, if I admit this, then I'm admitting that I'm failing.

Speaker 4 · 13:45

Maggie Olson here. I'm the founder of Nova Chief of Staff Certification. While the Chief of Staff role is growing in demand among executives, there just aren't tools out there to get real experience with the role before the stakes are high. That's where Nova comes in. I built Nova's self-paced online course with real-world hands-on examples to help you practice the daily functions of a Chief of Staff. If you're an executive assistant looking to expand or enhance your capacity, it's the perfect next step for you. Join Nova today and find out why hundreds of assistants are taking this leap in their career. And use code JEREMY100 to receive $100 off enrollment for the month of February. Learn more about what Nova can do for you at leaderassistant.com/nova.

Vitale · 14:33

Yeah, so it takes courage. But one of the things as it relates to that, how perfectionism shows up, is when assistants set people-pleasing deadlines instead of realistic deadlines. So think about the last time you were in a meeting and they're like, oh, when can you get that to us by? And you're like, oh, I'll get it to you end of week. And then you're reeling inside your head because you're like, oh my gosh, I've got eight other projects that are priorities for my executive, and I just promised this other project by Friday. So instead of doing that, it's about pausing, right? And saying, hey, I love that you want to make this project a priority. Realistically, I can get that to you next week. If you want it sooner, let me show you all the other projects I'm working on, and I'm happy to shift, but I just need guidance from you. So I think it's really just about prioritizing your mental health and well-being and being willing to say, not that I can't handle it all, but we need to prioritize here. So even that can be scary for a perfectionist to be like, hold on, realistically, I can get this to you next week. If you need it sooner, let me know what I need to shift. Because as perfectionists, we want to appear that we have it all, because the assistant role is really this hero, do it all, save the day, behind the scenes, running the show role. And so to admit that actually that can't get done till next week can be really scary.

Jeremy · 16:01

And it's like the it's like you're not saying no, but you're also not saying yes without any sort of thought or any sort of assessment on, okay, how much time do I really have and what other priorities am I working on? And so it's kind of like, yes, I'd be happy to help and I'm going to need to push it back or push this other thing back. So yeah, that's great.

Vitale · 16:34

Well, and we teach people how to treat us, right? So if we're constantly telling people we're superhuman, right, they're going to think that we're superhuman, right? They don't know the hours that are happening when they're not, you know, you don't see them or the after hours work that you're putting in. And so we have to reteach people.

Jeremy · 16:55

So, okay, so let's flip the table a little bit. And how if you have a colleague or if your executive is the one that's the perfectionist. You know what I mean? Like, how do you gently encourage and challenge them out of their perfectionism?

Vitale · 17:16

Yeah. So I get a lot of those questions. It's like, okay, well, I'm working on healing my perfectionism, but the person that I report to is not. What do I do? And it's just even that example that I gave with the realistic, you know, the realistic deadlines versus the people pleasing deadlines. It's, you know, having the courage to say, hey, realistically, that project is going to be done next week or realistic. You know, these timelines that you're requesting are really unrealistic, given all of the different priorities. And I'm not saying that it can't be done, but I want you to really get a full picture of what everything that the company, I, whomever, are working on and all the different things that are going on right now. It requires courage to even say, you know, I'm really focusing on my family right now. And so one of my priorities and boundaries that I'm setting is I'm not going to be checking emails after 6 p.m. And so if there are different ways that we can work on communicating so that I can still be responsive, let's work on that. But I also want to let you know that this is a shift that I'm making, which again is a really scary conversation to have. But do we, you know, if we want to have these work-life boundaries, if we want to prioritize our personal life, then we have to say those things. Another way of doing that, too, is just, you know, really being just upfront and clear with your expectations, your timelines, when you can get things done. So just being really thoughtful, practicing the pause and not overcommitting. Remembering when we say yes to something, we're saying no to something else.

Jeremy · 18:49

Right. Yeah. I mean, I was thinking it's kind of like, you know, if your executive is a perfectionist, then you almost have the power, in a way, for lack of a better term. You almost have the power to feed their perfectionism based on how you react and how you respond to them.

Vitale · 19:12

Right. And if you're constantly like having like setting these unrealistic deadlines, like working overtime to get all this stuff done, I mean, you're feeding into this perfectionist, you know, ideal that's just not. Here's the thing, too, is to let go of perfectionism is not to say that your work product and your work quality suffers. It actually gets better because you drop the overwhelm, the anxiety, the questioning of yourself. You drop the people pleasing, you drop the, you know, saying all of the self-criticism that comes with it. So you drop all this energy that accompanies perfectionism, which imagine how much more energy you would have in your life to give to work, family, whatever it is that you want. You know, you want to focus on.

Jeremy · 19:57

Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like the perfectionism. You know, the more you strive for it, the further away from perfect you are. And the less you strive for it, the better, you know, it's almost like it's like that counterintuitive mindset shift.

Vitale · 20:16

And I think another thing that can be helpful, too, is sitting down with your executive and saying, and this can be scary, especially if you're reporting to a perfectionist, but sitting down and saying, of the things that are on my plate, what require 100% and what require 85? Right, which is totally like probably gives all of my perfectionists that are listening right now anxiety, be like, what? Something can be 85%, but maybe internal emails can be 85%, meaning you prove it once you send it out and you move on. Maybe an email that goes out to the board of directors of a public company needs to be 100%, right? So you need to prove it. Maybe someone else does it. You know what I'm saying? Like that sort of thing. You know, so it's knowing like which of your tasks really need to be accurate and 100% and which ones can be 85%.

Jeremy · 21:07

Yeah. Yeah, because it's not always, hey, if I do this, I'm not going to be able to do this. Like you said, it can be, hey, if I put my, you know, top notch focus and energy on this, I can still complete this project, but, you know, it won't be as buttoned up as you may want it. And are you OK with that?

Vitale · 21:35

Like a first draft of something might be 85%. But it's also good to communicate that with your leader and get on the same page, because oftentimes, too, when we are working with perfectionist leaders, you know, there's that desire for everything to be 100% when some things just don't need to be. So even having that conversation can help them to start thinking, well, maybe that doesn't need to be 100%. OK, I've just never even thought of things like that. I never really thought about stuff like that, right? There was a lawyer that I was speaking with and he was saying that, you know, there was a pro bono client that he was working with and he said, you know, typically if it was a corporate client, they would, you know, spend a ton of hours on this and make sure, you know, but it was OK. The pro bono contract was good enough, like to spend five hours on instead of 20 hours on. And it was going to be a great contract. I didn't need to throw any more hours into it. Like that was good enough.

Jeremy · 22:37

Yeah.

Vitale · 22:38

So even just identify.

Jeremy · 22:40

Yeah, I remember, you know, the probably the best example I can think of this is I remember taking my executive ICO to the airport one time. And, you know, I used to put together the super in depth travel itinerary with all these, you know, all the details, everything you could possibly think of. And I remember, you know, I was taking the airport and he's like, Hey, what? He was asking me a question about the itinerary. And he's like, What's the deal with this list? And I was like, Oh, it's on the calendar invite. And he pulls up the calendar invite and he's like, Yeah, you know, I can't even read those because my phone app formats it all funky. And so I haven't even been able to. And I'm like, I've been I've been giving 100% on these itineraries for months. And he can't even reach them on his phone. So anyway, it it kind of showed me I was like, Oh, OK. So there's actually I can strip that down to the very critical points of information that he needs. So now my travel itineraries are on the calendar with very minimal formatting and, you know, simple things like, Oh, this is your flight number, your confirmation number. This is the airline, you know, and that's it. And so, yeah, you'd be surprised at how often there, you know, we do, especially as assistants, we put all this effort into it and then we think, OK, this is great. And then we turn it over to the executive or colleague and they're like, Oh, OK. Wow, you went over far and above what I was expecting. I was just thinking this and you're like, Oh, no, I just spent three days on that. I could have spent 30 minutes on it.

Vitale · 24:19

Right. Right.

Jeremy · 24:20

So anyway, yeah, that's great. Well, yeah, I think. Is there anything else, Vitale, that you would like to share with Assistants of the World before we wrap up?

Vitale · 24:35

Yeah, I would say that one of the good kind of guides for knowing if you are in perfectionism mode or not is when you look at your motivations for doing something, making a decision, whatever, really knowing, am I doing this for love or from love? And so when we are doing things for love, we are in perfectionism mode. I'm doing this because I need your approval. Instead of doing it from love, from love is, you know, I'm really proud of my position and the role that I have, and I love the relationship that I have with my executive. And I'm going to do this because I want to, you know, it's from love instead of for love. So for me, it's always a good distinction to think, okay, am I doing this for love or am I doing it from love?

Jeremy · 25:22

Well, that's great. It's actually very, might even like it better than what I usually use. And I wrote this in my book, but I talk about this quote from Dorothy Sayers, and she talks about serving the work versus angling for applause.

Vitale · 25:39

Right.

Jeremy · 25:40

And so it's kind of the same idea. Am I doing this because I'm trying to do good work or am I doing this because I want that pat on the shoulder? Right. So yeah, well said. Great way to finish. Thank you so much for sharing your story. And what's the best place? I'll put all your links in the show notes, but what's the kind of one place that you'd like people to reach out if they want to learn more?

Vitale · 26:02

I would say that LinkedIn is probably the easiest way to find me, just given that my name can be a little difficult.

Jeremy · 26:07

Sounds good. Well, I'll put that link and then your website and everything in your link to your book. Your book is called Addicted to Perfect. Is that right?

Vitale · 26:18

That's right.

Jeremy · 26:19

Yeah. So I'll put all those links in the show notes at leaderassistant.com/258leaderassistant.com/ 258. And yeah, Vitale, thank you so much for your time and best of luck in continuing your battle against perfectionism.

Vitale · 26:36

Thank you, Jeremy. Please review on Apple Podcasts.

Speaker 3 · 26:57

goburrows.com